Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Marie Antoinette: DNA Family History


   When we use DNA to research our family history, we have the potential to uncover quite a bit of information.  We could find living cousins, lost connections and deep ancestral origins.  There is also geographic information associated with your DNA.  When you start comparing your DNA to your Clan and your Tribe, you can map your recent old world origins and your migrations.

   You are not limited to your own DNA as you are researching.  As we work on our traditional genealogy, we may find famous ancestors, a Mayflower passenger here or a President there.  If you are descended from them then you can bet that hundreds of other people are also.  Many times one of those hundreds has had their DNA tested to confirm their relationship to that famous ancestor.  You can use that published data to add to your family history.

Source: Wikimedia Commons

   Let’s look at Marie Antoinette, while she has no living descendants, she makes a great example.  Tests from a lock of her hair and from her son’s preserved heart show her mitochondrial DNA to be haplogroup H, the most common group in Europe.

   Marie Antoinette’s results - HVR1 - 16519C and HVR2 - 152C, 194T, 263G, 315.1C

   Marie Antoinette’s maternal line has been documented back 25 generations to the 1100s.  You could still be related to her through this Germanic line of women.  There are twelve exact HVR1/HVR2 matches for Marie Antoinette on Mitosearch.org.  Even with an exact match, that common ancestor lived over 625 years ago, in the 1300s or earlier.

   On paper, Marie Antoinette’s ancestry goes back to the 1100s in the Holy Roman Empire (modern day Germany).  DNA can take us further.  One theory shows a correlation between HVR2 marker 152C and the Goth barbarian tribes.  The Goths were in no way a homogenous genetic group as they grew through mergers and acquisitions.  To say that one DNA marker defines a mixed group like the Goths may be hard to prove.


   If we look at the geographic data associated with Marie Antoinette’s maternal tribe, a pattern starts to emerge.  Take all the DNA records available, matches and close matches.  With each close mismatch, we can step backwards in time in roughly 625-year increments.   TribeMapper® analysis shows a genetic flow of ancestors from Scandinavia down through the Germanic heartland.  The timing of this flow, from 2200 to 1300 years ago suggests a connection to the Goth migrations.  While this is still not definitive proof, it is an additional element that could be used to build a case that Marie Antoinette was a Goth descendant.

   This is an example of the geographic data that can be harnessed from mitochondrial DNA.  The results with mtDNA tend to be more macro as there is less variability, which leads to less timeline resolution.  Y DNA has more variability and will produce maps in greater detail.  Our unique Tribal DNA will tell its own migration story and help tie us to history.

© Michael R. Maglio and OriginsDNA

52 comments:

  1. If, through family lore, there is a chance of having a famous ancestor, how does one go about finding out if that (dead) famous person's DNA is recorded?

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    Replies
    1. Most of the time the actual DNA of the famous person has not been collected or recorded. Marie Antoinette's DNA is a rare case. Occasionally they will exhume someone to prove a case - like Jesse James. They also believe that there may be a viable blood sample on Abraham Lincoln's clothing from the day he was shot.

      Most famous DNA comes from 2 or more samples of living descendants with strong paper genealogies.

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    2. I found out with an 23 and me test that I am related to Marie Antoinette.

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    3. My brother has done a 23andme test as well and we also share DNA with Marie Antoinette. We are both in the process of working on our family tree, trying to trace where the connection might be.

      It's all very exciting and very overwhelming!!

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    4. My brother just got his ancestory report through 23andme, and found out that through our maternal side we too are related to Marie Antionette. I have always been so facsincated with her and her extravagant life style. I guess this means you and I are long lost relatives, lol. Ha ha. Anyway thanks for all of your I interesting info.

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    5. #Me2... not feeling so special anymore

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    6. My mother also found out she is related to Marie Antoinette too!

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    7. I found out with an 23 and me test that I am related to Marie Antoinette.

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    8. apparently a lot of us are related to MA and her mother. My Group is H1ah1... So finding a match is not going to happen.. As well as no France DNA matches show in my DNA. England/Wales (documented) Scotland (documented) and Ireland. I have Swedish Lines from dad and German, but since I am female those do not show in my DNA.

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    9. Im also a granddaughter relative from marie antoinette

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    10. I am also a relative of Marie Antoinette.

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  2. My HVR1 is 16243C, and 16519C. My HRV2 is 263G, and 315.1C. Therefore I seem to match Marie Antoinette, but in what way, and at what range? Thank you.

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    Replies
    1. Hi, you do share some of the same markers as Marie Antoinette. You have one additional HVR1 and she has two additional HVR2. Those 3 differences put your common ancestor between 3,000 and 6,000 years ago. Even if you matched exactly, your common ancestor would be 600 to 1,200 years ago.

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    2. I share somd of the same markers as well!

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  3. Hello my HVR1 is 16311C, and 16519C. My HRV2 is 263G and 315.1C.
    How close a match to Marie Antoinette am I.

    Thanks

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    Replies
    1. Hi, like the previous post, you have 3 differences that gives you a common ancestor with Marie Antoinette about 3,000 to 6,000 years ago. You have more in common with the previous poster, only 2 differences or 2,000 to 4,000 years ago.

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    2. Wow mine is also HVR 1 : 16311C, 16519C HVR2: 73G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C

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  4. Thanks Michael
    At 3,000 to 6,000 years ago would the TMCRA have lived in Scandinavia?

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    Replies
    1. 3,000 years ago would most likely be Scandinavia. 6,000 years ago we might be talking about the Iberian peninsula.

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  5. Is there something wrong with the OriginsDNA website? Compared to 23andme.com and others, it doesn't look very promising... or do I need to contact someone to pursue it?

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  6. My HVR1 and HVR2 results are shown below. As you can see the results are exact on HVR1 and similar on HVR2 to Marie.
    My question is how closely related are we?
    HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS
    A16129G T16187C C16189T T16223C G16230A T16278C C16311T
    HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS
    G73A C146T C150T C152T A247G 309.1C 315.1C
    To learn more about RSRS click here.

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  7. Hello, my results simplified below

    HVR1 REFERENCE SEQUENCE
    Show All Positions
    Position CRS Your Result
    16519 T C
    HVR2 REFERENCE SEQUENCE
    Show All Positions
    Position CRS Your Result
    150 C T
    195 T C
    263 A G
    309.1 C
    315.1 C
    522 C -
    523 A -

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  8. Hi my is HVR1: 16519C HVR2:263G,309.1C, 315.1C, 453C
    And we know, that some of our ancestors (Mother line) are comming from Elsaß Lothringen over travel (how long not known)to Austria/Hungaria region. Time went out from this region 1700 (Maria Theresia time)...to Banat (stayed there).

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  9. HVR1: 16519C HVR2:263G 309.1C 315.1C
    This is relative b. 1912. She was 90% European, mostly English.

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    Replies
    1. Is she related to Marie Antoinette, or is it a mismatch because of the 309.1C difference. I don't understand this well...learning. Thanks.

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  10. Hello Michael.
    I am trying to see how close a female friend is to Marie Antionette. Her reading is H 263G, 315.1C, 16519C.
    The woman is from the Savoy family. Regards John

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    Replies
    1. same reading here, I just googled 16519C 263G 315.1C and got here. I did these tests years ago and can't remember anything about what they mean...

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    2. HVR1: 16519C
      HVR2: 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C, 453C
      This is mine... we match in 3.
      Regards Ute

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    3. I have the same : 16519C 263G 309.1C
      I am trying to find my roots : can you help me ?

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    4. You mean the house of Savoy? Interesting. History shows us that European royalty throughout the ages have always inbred to protect their bloodlines and therefore secure rights to the thrones of Europe. Many royals also had bastards or children from past marriages. So if your friend is indeed related to Marie-Antoinette then (a) she descended from a distant relative of the Hapsburgs who married into the Savoys, (b) she and MA share a common ancestor, or (c) she might be related to an illegitimate offspring of some Habsburg or Savoyard prince/princess.

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  11. I've recently had my DNA confirmed by family tree DNA and I share a common ancestor with Marie around 28 generation ago.

    My results:

    Haplogroup H
    HVR1 = 16519C
    HVR2 = 150-T, 195-C, 263-G, 309.1-C, 315.1-C

    and Marie's results are:
    Haplogroup H
    HVR1 = 16519C
    HVR2 = 152-C, 194-T, 263-G, 315.1-C

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  12. 23 and me results said that Marie Antoinette had a common ancestor too, along with Price Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

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  13. 23 and me says that I am related to Marie Antoinette and prince Phillip, the duke of Edinburgh, what do I do with this new found knowledge

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I found out with an 23 and me test that I am related to Marie Antoinette.

      Delete
  14. According to the my DNA profile through National Geographic’s Genographics Project, I am related to her, her mother (which would make sense) and Queen Victoria and Napoleon Bonaparte. So how related am I actually?

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    Replies
    1. Um how are we not related? I have same matches. Same testing company. Message me please. Kaytandrobbiesmom@Yahoo. Com

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  15. Hallo Michael,

    eine schöne Seite! Meine Abstammung sieht so aus:
    H; Kelten; HVR1: 16148T, 16519C
    HVR2: 263G, 315.1C

    Gibt es auch schon Abstammungsdaten oder genetisches Material von der Kaiserin Elisabeth von Österreich oder von den Wittelsbachern?
    LG Elisabeth

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  16. King Louis Capet was my 27th great grandfather according to my genealogy. now my DNA proves that I was related to his wife Marie.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Sara ........... I am also related .......... contact me at jonnormandin@aol.com and we can compare notes. I do not use the gmail account attached so please use the aol address.

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    2. I found out with an 23 and me test that I am related to Marie Antoinette as well.I'm also O negative blood type witch the royal Family is.

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  17. Hello,

    I didn´t test through FTDNA, because i am on a budget. I did the HVR1 and the result was R0 16519C to rCRS. Does this mean i am R0 and not H? Now i am waiting for the HVR2.

    Thanks.

    Nuno

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  18. So I just found out I'm related to her and Jesse James lol.

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  19. I'm related to the pelletier's

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  20. I am related to charlamagne... I am Merovingian....

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  21. I too discovered a DNA connection to Marie Antoinette and Prince Philip through 23&me. Through family history I am on my mother's side, related to JS Bach, Grandmother K Bach and grandfather,J Lay. Lay ancestors were from (Lay) border region of France/Germany. Fled area at time of reformation edict of Louis of France
    (Ducabors), religious persecution.
    I was born in Aufkirchen Germany near Ending.
    Very interesting to discover the difficult lives my ancestors lived and survived. Gives me strength.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi...I already knew that my great grandfather was a baron who came to Britain in the eighteenth century from Germany , he went on to have a daughter (my grandmother with the ladies maid) he looked after her...when she was grown he ask her and her mother to go to South Africa with him, but she declined as she had met my grandfather then...so she stayed here in Britain , my great grandfather made sure she was looked after financially from a distance..I always wondered why my grandmother, when I was a child used to teach me how to be a lady..it all makes sense now..I need to look into a lot more things I think, look back further...even though I did know of the baron issue...I never gave it a lot of thought...so even though exciting ,it was also a shock and a bit sad..albeit intriguing ....

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  23. I must add ...I did the DNA test ....even though I did know part of my heritage ,to have certain things confirmed to me was a big eye opener ...having the same haplogroup H16...

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  25. Hi, I did 23 and me and I discovered I was related to Marie Antoinette from my mom's side. On my dad side I am related to Niall of the Nine Hostages. It also says I have Neanderthal ancestry. My DNA is H3g RL226. Any help would be nice. I am new to this.

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  26. Hi what is h13a haplogroup on 23ndme? Meaning how many generations back

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